Changing Lives with Devon Jones
Spirit of Math Podcast Episode #7
In this episode, hosts Kim Langen and Nathan Langen interview Devon Jones, who for over 2 decades taught at Brookview Middle School and also in a central capacity as a special project teacher at the Toronto District School Board (TDSB). Working with some of Toronto’s racialized and marginalized students at Brookview Middle School, in the Jane and Finch area, Jones strives to show his students “how to make smart choices, how to be civically engaged (and) how to be part of the larger social fabric.”
In 2007, Jones co-founded the Youth Association for Academics, Athletics and Character Education (YAAACE), a social enterprise developed to help marginalized and poor youth through “year-round comprehensive programming and activities.” It now helps about 600 kids annually. The program was founded primarily to create a viable alternative to guns, drugs, and gangs. Devon Jones is an Educator, Community Developer and Youth advocate and his work have been highlighted in the Toronto Star, National Post, and the CBC. He currently resides in Toronto with his family.
About Devon Jones
Devon Jones is an Educator, Community Developer and Youth advocate and his work have been highlighted in the Toronto Star, National Post, and the CBC. His commitment to young people in an area of Toronto that’s been branded the most dangerous area to be a kid has extended beyond school boundaries and hours and has inspired thousands of young people. Jones was given an honourable mention in the Toronto Star Teacher of the Year awards.
OK, so welcome back to another episode of releasing the
genius where we interview extraordinary people and we try to
discover how exactly did they get there.
So this next person we have in is Devonne Jonesin
for over two decades,
Devon Jones has taught at Brook View Middle School an
also in central capacity is a special project teacher at
the Toronto District school board working of some of Toronto’s
racialized and marginalized students at Brook View Middle School in
the Jane and Finch area.
Jones strives to show his students how to make smart
How to be civically engaged and how to be part
of the larger social fabric that’s great.
His commitment to young people in area of Toronto that’s
been branded the most dangerous area to be a kid
has extended beyond school boundaries and hours and has inspired
thousands of young people.
Jones was given an honorable mention in the Toronto Star
Teacher of the Year Awards.
In 2007, Jones cofounded the Youth Association for academics,
athletics, and character education. Also known as yes or Y
AAA CEA social enterprise develop to help marginalized and poor
youth through year round,
comprehensive programming and activities, and now help help 600 kids
The program was founded primarily to create a viable alternative
drugs, and gangs. Devonne Jones is an educator community developer,
an youth advocate. And his work has been highlighted in
the Toronto Star National Post and the CBC.
He currently resides in trono with his family.
So thank you for joining us here to fun.
Thank you for having me appreciate it and I just
want to say a couple of things before you get
OK, ’cause I think that the everyone the listeners should
know that first time I mentioned if an was over
the phone and what he has done,
you may think OK, he’s done.
He’s created this and he’s done that and there’s lots
of people who have done different community.
Initiatives. But first of all have to understand where it
was and that huge jump to be able to take
something from one of one of the most marginalized areas
in Toronto, which is huge.
An not not look at that as a problem,
but as an opportunity for one.
The other thing about Devonne is that is always about
It has never been about him,
and at for our listeners.
I just want you to really get that sense.
About him, it’s it’s because of that he has been
able to be very successful,
effective, and be able to develop a program that has
developed some of the top kids in our nation.
and I think and it’s not just is he looking
for the top kids,
but he’s also looked at.
How do we deal with a major problem and make
it something good like turn it around so that we’ve
got something good?
So this is really exciting.
Having you here today, I’m really excited about just hearing
more about you as a person as well.
But before I talk too much,
let’s get to you. Can you please tell people What
is this program what?
Why did you start it and what is it doing
in this in this area of Toronto?
and I think after his will talk about a little
bit more about you,
Anne. Also where this program is going alright sounds good,
that’s awesome. Thank you so much for having me,
Kim. Thank you Nathan for having me.
Yeah from teaching school and Jane and Finch for close
to 20 years.
Over that time I realized that there were huge issues
You know kids from that neighborhood with they were pretty
much on the periphery there at the margins looking in,
and I’ve always thought how can we change that dynamic
like how can we create a constructive ecosystem where children
and you saw themselves as part of the largest social
fabric? Because when young people are,
when you’re hopeless when they feel they don’t belong,
they create. Alternative realities that they force us as a
society to deal with.
And oftentimes we see that stuff play out on the
The Toronto star in the most hideous of ways are
the most compromising of of social mores or expectations,
and we ask yourself, how could that be?
But those are kids that were left of the automize.
So in creating a program.
I ask yourself, I asked myself like what major?
Social issue my triangle address.
And then How do I go about doing that?
And it was? Moving kids from the periphery to center.
In what are the most compromised vulnerable?
Communities in this country. So what did you do like?
What does this look like?
Yeah, so the operational framework was this frame days it
Outreaching wraparound. What do you mean by outreach?
Outreach meant I would really make it a point to
find young people.
Uh. Children that were vulnerable and we provide outreach to
right? Wraparound support means that you are as comprehensive as
any nauseum that would compromise that child.
So you’re always there. One thing I’ve learned from doing
you can’t turn your neck for a second ’cause I
gotta lose their child because.
That vice is more so tangible,
and is more so. Tantalise into that child is there.
It’s $100. Bring that over there for me.
It appear here jordans. It’s tangibles present,
so you have to be as present.
You know, you know, and you’re you’re,
you’re pretty much providing something different,
something that’s a long term that a child might not
realize it’s so much more into his or her best
interest and trust.
Your building trust 100% trust you know?
So regional up around the next piece was just access
to expanded opportunities.
You know what were some of the water?
Some of these? What is some of these things that
a young person don’t always have access to?
So one of the things I find that produce some
of the top people in the world is that access
we talk about access just to education in some cases,
but this is even more than that,
because education provides you with so much.
But you’re saying access ’cause these kids all have access
to education like as the day school,
but what you’re providing them access to is something else
that allows them to go from here up to hear
what is it that you provide acteurs yeah so.
The education piece I slide into academic intervention.
The peace round, expanded opportunities or for example I just
I just left a gym with with with about 20
young people in it.
You know, you know four coaches there.
Maybe 8 young people that we hired as staff.
That’s in the gym working.
No, and then I met with someone around starting an
You know two very creative with the most creative people
I’ve ever met.
You know and have a great contact at Sony.
And we’re talking about creating a project similar to the
remix project or fresh arts who created created so many
iconic people in the city as relates to the arts.
So it’s given kids stuff they wouldn’t normally have access
to because of price point,
or because of being accessible,
it’s not accessible to them.
It’s making it accessible. You know so.
And in doing that I look at the number of
successful young people or the program like a kid like
O’Shea preset that plays for the Raptors are his brother
Dejon Brissett. Those just drafted second by the Argos.
You know kids like Nikhila Exander that place for the
for the Pelicans are Justin Jackson who I just left
in the gym.
Just imagine you’re in a gym,
you’re in great Seven and there’s a guy.
Across the gym, who’s an NBA
Wow, was there working out?
But yeah, so its role met models and letting them
know that it’s actually not something far in distance.
It’s it’s right there and Relateable Yeah,
and just imagine that Justin was in that same position
when he was with me when he was in Grade
Yeah, I was a goalie in Hockey Night.
Mike Fisher. He was very successful hockey player.
I realized right after ’cause he left a bruise on
I I wouldn’t let him score.
So we started shooting harder.
Well, it doesn’t. Wow, but you know about Mike Fisher.
Well I got better equipment.
Mom. I think what you’ve done though,
is what you’re saying is that these people are iaccessible
top of the world.
Basically is what you’re talking about to come and they
will work with kids 100%.
You just have to reach out about what like is
this what I’m saying.
I’m saying, like you know.
All the kids I mentioned OSHA was with me when
he was in Grade 5.
He’s all Toronto Raptor. Can you tell tell the world
what a Toronto Raptor is because some of the world
They may know, but just make sure.
Will the troika will not sure is a professional basketball
team in Toronto and they are the world champions.
Yeah, only Canadian team. We won the city went crazy
at times it also.
Kid came to your program this form before me was
five for me was in grade five.
Yeah, so I mean, the chance of you playing professional
basketball is one maybe 2 million.
And this young man was fortunate.
Is Ford enough to be one of those kids?
So what you’ve done, I wanted to talk about you.
But before we do that because this is really interesting.
You not only brought him up,
there is other people in other areas that you’ve done
like you just basically bounce them from being,
you know, sort of in the average level 2,
boom right to the top,
and you didn’t even have room.
It went right to stop,
but it’s not just one or two.
You actually. If I look at the number of kids
you’re working with and the number who actually reached up
I mean, that percentage seems extremely high.
Yeah, So what did you do because?
It’s micromanaging young persons trajectory.
You know, and I look at look at very successful
people that I’ve added as mentors.
For example, Speaking of hockey cards,
soubanh was my principle for five years.
Really, at Brookview. Yeah, he was my boss.
So PK Sue Band Soubanh Georgia funny guy would be
that there then you know like yeah Malcolm like I
like but I saw I saw that I saw a
father’s dedication. Yeah, I saw father’s attention to another.
I was a young father myself at the time I
saw father’s attention to details.
Right, I saw. How? The success of a young person
was left to chance every aspect of that child’s Day
was planned strategically,
so was apparent embodied that that mindset and as a
And as a mentor, that was also my minds at
the kids at jase like for example the caretakers was
very upset at me when we walked into 45 N
Ridge yesterday. It’s not safe,
I said listen.
You were paying for this permit.
And at the end of the day,
I want to make sure I can touch and feel.
The well being of each of these each children in
my program this summer.
I haven’t seen them since March,
you know. So I mean 12 them go awry 4445?
Six months without any meaningful interaction,
especially for the demographic of kids were talking about.
That’s way too long, so if I can really engage
them for for a couple months for the 8 weeks,
who knows what’s going to transpire in October,
September, October, November, here? Also,
like you might be, you might be inconvenient,
secure taker, and. The fact is,
the kids we clean the Bell then you have to
do nothing but open the door.
And it’s an issue, but people don’t understand that.
So when I Program I always program the URL.
I always ensure that nothing was left to chance I
knew where these kids are all the time.
You know, like we might be a week in Christmas,
or maybe a weaker than the summer camp,
but those kids were inner buildings at all times,
so it’s more than just sports.
Yeah, yeah, you’re doing a lot of Education.
Lot of Education. I mean the third pillar,
the third, the first pillar was.
You know the third pillar is academic intervention.
The first, the first, the first pillar was was wraparound
you know, and then you know expand opportunities to academic
Like you know that’s the weekend program.
You know, that’s the evening program.
That’s my stuff. Going into schools to support struggling students.
So you might have. Young person was last appearing Torah
parent is incarcerated or something like that and I have
stuff that really addresses and Micro manage that students trajectory.
At our point, yeah, so it’s making sure that we
know what’s happened.
Nothings after chance. You take each life seriously,
extremely and therefore they know that because you’re taking it
that they should be taking their lives here for sure
and not an enchants.
No delusions yard you’re saying?
Here’s the fax. Let’s look after you an show them
how to be successful by living a life of success.
So that’s. Oh, like you know,
people may say OK, yeah,
that’s that’s kind of nice.
But you know what? Not many people are capable of
doing that in terms of adding on not just you
are successful as a father,
you’re just telling me about your son and you want.
Just tell everyone a little bit about your son,
what they’re doing. You can sort of go on about
your son a little bit and I’m going to go
on about you.
OK, yeah, tell us a little bit about him.
My my son plays a great student,
you know, plays the piano he plays.
Baseball is on the top top prospect in this country
My daughter plays tennis. You know she is.
She lost in the semis this weekend.
Usually you know she, but she’s playing against you.
Know she stands 10 years old.
Pinegar against girls were twelve you OK yeah,
big difference. Usually couple days on a Saturday we go
home but she made it through to Sunday.
You know she was at me,
she’s unquote, maybe maybe 4 to 5 hours a day.
So how do you keep them focused like this?
What sort of things do you say to them?
But what is it that that allows that you know
it’s not too much work,
but they want to keep going.
All these kids? You know what I,
I tell? I tell each and every single young person
I work with.
Be the best. Just. Be the best.
You know, I tell as it relates to sport SC.
Listen, be and be an apex predator.
There can be no one above you.
That’s what you strive for.
You know that’s what you commit to.
Anything you do in life,
you have to be the absolute best added.
And if you’re not going to be the best at
then don’t do it. If your mindset isn’t if you.
If you’re wired to be the absolute,
if not wired, to be the best.
When I quote basketball, I told my kids all the
It’s just about perfection. And perfect by perfection,
I mean the best that you can do.
We leave nothing on the table and the best you
can do that it’s very big.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right.
Right, and it’s all. It’s all positive affirmation,
it’s. It’s just demanding that they are the best.
Now that’s interesting. You’re demanding OK,
so let’s talk about you growing up.
What was your life like?
What were you like as a kid?
Let’s just talk about you as a small child where
you like one of these kids who are demanding of
others all the time.
When you’re little, you know what.
Like I look at look at,
look at my middle son sometimes and I see like
I have three children.
My oldest is 22 but like.
They’re all so different. I look at my daughter and
she’s just the consummate perfectionist.
Does everything realized everything has to be perfect.
Instructions are given once followed.
I look at my middle son is like I’m telling
you again again and I think that was that was
Right, I had to be reminded of things to,
you know, do things a particular way.
Darker corners and all that,
but growing up, I grew up in in very,
very. Rural Jamaica So what was it like?
Looking no looking back, I’m like damn who were poor.
Looking back I’m like man like we had so little
but I was raised in a home with a lot
I was reason a home with extremely high expectations.
High high expectations like in that home,
nothing less. Like perfection the best I said only the
best I could do no in that in that house.
Perfection was perfection 100% on every culture.
And if you didn’t man,
you’d hear about it. Interesting,
yeah, now you know I’m reading a book right now,
called abundance and one of the chapters talks about perhaps,
well, not perhaps they were saying that success in our
future will be about having less,
not more, and therefore a shifting of some of our
And you’re just talking about that.
You didn’t need all these things ’cause you were poor,
so you didn’t have all the material things.
But yeah, it sounds like you were rich.
At least what was given to you was rich in
understanding rich and who you are as a person,
and that’s the richness that that’s to be valued.
And if you’ve got that,
you can do almost anything in the world and I
believe that like it was just this.
Innate work ethic.
Yes, in a work ethic and this innate.
Desire to just be the best like.
You know, and you know it’s.
It is such it is such a value to pass
on to others as a leader as a teacher.
As a mentor, like it’s such a value to disseminate.
And. To watch young people like like I’m trying to
convince a young person that I want her,
you know, I was really bright and you know,
didn’t finish your undergrad. I don’t like listen so I
call her doctor.
Like you know, like I call a doctor Johnson because
I’m telling her you are going to get that PhD.
You know so. We spoke about the global Mail earlier.
There is a particular publication that was very very.
Disturbing to all of us and I’m like,
Yeah, but do something about it.
Right, you know there right in that because there isn’t
a culture narrative.
You be the counter narrative.
That’s right, you don’t say and you be the you
be that alternative voice and you’ll see that that.
It’s important for others to be able to hear from
you as opposed to have someone tell our story.
You are the one that should be overseen this narrative.
Yeah, yeah, and you know what you’re doing with the
kids too is being a role model and showing this
is what it looks like.
So they understand this is what it looks like to
be a perfectionist,
or not necessarily be a perfectionist for in a good
This is what it means to strive for this perfectionism.
And also it’s a role models to the success so
they can see not only what does it look like
when you’re pursuing it,
but also what it looks like to be there.
So I as a teenager where you that way as
well to people like did?
Did you start things in high school?
Did you or you just like a kid who just
went through high school?
Yeah, you don’t want. I was.
I was very driven, I was very driven to be
good at things.
You know, I was very,
for example. I played sport,
play basketball. Very driven to be good at it.
Didn’t have hadn’t no opportunity it are,
but in a short period of time,
like I really drove myself.
To be like extremely good at it,
with almost a professional skill set.
You know self taught. But ordered videos online.
Like you said, no excuses like I did do ridiculous
body through ridiculous,
you know, physical. Physically demanding things that made me this
exceptional athlete that you know people thought Oh my God
is so easy.
You know you had no idea what I did this
morning 5:00 o’clock.
You should have seen those 46 years that I read.
You know what I would never tell that.
I never told him what I do.
You know, I just never told my secret Santa’s secret
And then there’s all states for that.
As a student, it was like it was learning how
Pretty much in November, like my last year of high
school and it was like OK Um University or shoot
and then at a change my circle of friends and
I’m like how do you get 90s?
Yes or that’s how you get 90s?
Oh, you’re home studying every night for 3 1/2 four
so that’s how you get 90s.
OK, so once I understood that that it was just
this work ethic and applying yourself and his attention to
details that the smart kids were born.
Instinctively smart, they really studied and apply themselves and that’s
why they got the crates that they got.
Yeah, they were driven for a goal at the end.
It’s even right now with the work ethic I see
between different friends,
and it’s almost like different friend groups at this point.
But the ones that are trying to move things really
They’re working till midnight no problem,
but they’re not tired because they love it,
so it’s not, oh I have to work till midnight.
It’s OK. I get to do what I like and
I can see this goal coming.
So it’s sure, yeah, other people,
if they’re being forced to work till midnight there going
to be exhausted because they don’t want to be there.
We get a lot of very bright kids in our
school and spirit of math,
and many of them are gifted extremely gifted and but
yet we also get other kids who aren’t classified as
and they come in. And sometimes we’ve had some who
are quite like relatively weak,
but they put the effort in.
They have the motivation and they work at it,
workout at, work, out at work at it,
and they outperform those who are naturally gifted an.
I think that’s what you just said to an.
It’s consistently happening like that,
so it’s it really does come down to that.
And the plasticity of the brain.
But I think also our muscles.
There’s a lot involved in all of this.
Now I’m just wondering ’cause I’m really curious.
I don’t want to run out of time here,
and I think there’s something that I I’m I’m curious
about and that is in this program that you’ve got.
You’ve been able to produce in the top in the
Basically an I would say you have done that.
You’ve allowed them. You basically brought out that genius in
them and at the same time you’ve got,
you know, I dichotomy because you’ve got these kids are
so challenged with just living life and not getting into
another trap which we talked about being one of the
biggest traps you can get in this world really is
making up your own other reality and getting into trouble.
Basically, you know, in one way or another,
and so you’ve got these two things that you’re.
Working with how do you work with that?
Like how do you deal with that?
What do you do to sort of pull it all
together so that everyone is working together and there isn’t
Yeah, and that is, that is a very.
That that is a very I mean You used the
word dichotomy and you couldn’t use a word that is,
that is more so precise,
for example. Uhm, I requested permits.
Space for my programming. And the school board secured space
Jayden Driftwood. The fact is that I can go to
that place based on the fact that there is an
Issue Rd violence oh so.
The incidents are so random and so indiscriminate that a
young person who could be one of my stuff going
to work though.
Could be their demise that he could get shot that
It could be one of my kids.
Might the young men working for me.
It could be one of my teachers.
And. Based on the current climate in the number of
homicides in like I cannot in good content utilize that
Because I’m putting people’s life at risk,
yes, they don’t understand that so.
The kids that I work with think about a child
from that neighborhood who works in the neighborhood.
They have to navigate that dichotomy each and every single
You have to navigate that reality each and every single
day and the other end of the coding for them
is here is is that I have to meet your
navigating your mortality, but I’m asking you to meet real
Not that is a dichotomy mean.
Yeah, yes, yes, that is a dichotomy,
you know, and it helps.
I would say that when they come out like that
as they grow up,
they have a much broader understanding of the world they
You’re also telling them that their lives are very important
and that this isn’t right,
that they should have to do this.
So even by you saying This isn’t safe to be
you are actually in fact saying.
Well, this is this is not.
Good even though you have to navigate it is still
not good that you’re navigating it of course,
and kids need to understand that is not a norm
or it shouldn’t be enormous.
Put it that way. For some people it is a
but it shouldn’t be can be.
And yes, because. The problem is that.
A lot of young people have accepted that subculture as
that they have accepted that pathology as the norm or
adults will do that.
Yeah, accepted that you want.
They present. The most depraved,
the most dangerous element in our society,
because we’ve pretty much at least not.
They didn’t create the. They inherited those realities.
You know, and their force to absorb those norms,
and they’ve accepted them and their operating within those parameters
and the pathology inherent and those in those parameters.
My goodness, like yes, yeah,
I’ve worked in inner City Schools.
I don’t know what else to call them where there
is this happening in high schools and having to work
with the kids with this.
and I think one of the keys that you’ve got
is that you’ve got you’ve given them the belief in
themselves that they’ve got something much more.
I think. Also, the fact that you’re taking away delusions
This isn’t right and facing the facts,
I know the top of the world.
They say world class people are able to do that.
They are able to differentiate subjective reality,
an objective reality, and so when you’re basically signal,
that’s a subjective reality that that’s the norm.
This is the objective reality and then somehow,
and I don’t know what your secret is.
Secret sauces, but I think there should be,
you know, people around the world if you’re trying to
do something like this,
I think you should reach out to divine because he
has been able to connect them with world class thinkers.
World class doers and an shift.
This thinking for a whole community.
It basically is what you’re doing yeah how can people
Follow your stories and before I said don’t get me
wrong we do have attrition.
We do have young people that.
You like? You know, I asked.
I asked the question when I see a young people
that are yellow personal young people that’s compromised.
It’s not what’s wrong with you is what happened to
you and I really try and make sense of.
I really try and make sense of the trajectory that
has led to that outcome.
The undesirable outcome, right? So there’s been a lot of
young people are program.
For example, I have a team with with.
Maybe several college graduates. An NBA player on it and
one one young man who lost his life at 15
and another that was charged with murder.
9 year old a sorry at 19 years old,
you know, as a gifted student so you don’t say
so you have again understand that team.
We have that dichotomy here also despite the fact that
we have successfully also have some attrition with,
I’m always asking like I said too.
One of my staff this morning,
yes, but good at what we do,
but. We’re not.
We’re not. We’re not the best and we’re not the
winner or better selves,
and we can do better.
And we need to do better.
If you want perfection, perfection,
water, make sure that we’re not losing keys to the
streets without losing kids incarceration,
or you know kids are not.
Then I’ll end up being gone,
told him. This is family.
You know the the teenage years with that frontal lobe
Their logic is kind of cookie and if there if
they’ve got the different people in their lives that are
convincing them of these reasoning that this is the truth
of this reasoning is right.
They don’t have the ability they’re learning that ability to
reason ’cause That’s the frontal lobe,
right? And so giving them that opportunity to be with
others to reason properly too.
But it’s still tough they go home.
And are they go? Maybe they don’t go home.
Maybe they go somewhere else and then that influence is
so strong an at the teenage years it’s it’s tough
You know what? They go home to those depraved communities,
you know. And it’s no knock on the communities,
but they go home to those very compromising realities.
and I did it with a group of young people.
I spent 90. I did a project with the feds
and we spent 96 weekends with a group of young
And. It was it was transformation TLE for me to
see how different they were outside of that environment.
How interesting to see Children Act like children.
They when they get back in that neighborhood,
they revert back. To the expectation of the peer group.
Yes. In that reality, and it was.
I mean, it was a very unique project for me.
I’m going to write a book on that project,
actually, because we’ve had. We’ve had young persons in that
project who have done extremely well.
Be great for you to write that because I think
people can learn from you and I should not.
Yeah, I’m just especially around the world as well because
a lot of times they think that everything is sunshine
and rainbows in Canada,
but it’s OK. Well, not not fully,
but at least let’s share what we’ve gone through and
our knowledge is and how it could possibly help other
Yeah, yeah, there are communities all around the world who
have the same challenges no matter where we are.
and I think though that you found this.
You’ve got a bit of a secret sauce.
And and you said secrets,
one of your secrets I was getting up at 5:30
in the morning and actually doing it and the other
secret is not to complain about it and say to
everyone. I was up at 5:30 in the morning.
I did this. I did this.
That’s not the winners mentality.
So I know you didn’t do that.
That’s right, that’s right. And
it’s not about.
It’s not about, you know.
Showing yourself as better this way about just doing your
best guess would be.
So how can they look you up?
What can they do so that they can find out?
Because I think this is amazing.
I think people would love to reach out to you
to find out what you’re doing,
how you’re doing it so that you know all our
If you’ve got an initiative like you that you would
like to do like this,
I know is just speaking to Febio Talon in Uganda
and she’s saying the same issues that slightly different in
It is different but. But it’s still is comes down
to this whole idea that you need to recreate almost
a community for them of a reality.
That is a shift from what they are.
Other community is, but how can they get hold of
you so that they can find it on IG or
It’s jase Y AAA CE.
That’s why aace. Underscore SI so it’s yes underscore SI.
Um on Instagram and Twitter or on our website at
www.isyace.com will put those in the description so it can
just get hyperlinked right away.
OK, OK, it’s on your chest.
OK. I think I just want to ask you one
more question because our time is coming to the end.
This is being really fascinating.
It would be lovely to sort of dig down more
and with other conversations and we definitely will have some
I just think you know if you can give one
thought out there,
you’re you’re genius has been released in what you’re doing.
You figured out is not necessarily whether you figured it
You just evolved into what your genius has been to
What would you give to?
The kids out there or even to other adults once
allowed you to figure this out,
or what would you say to them so that they
are genius can also be realized.
I like, I like what you said like we just.
We just evolved into this.
And. As it relates to programming,
we continue to evolve to be or better cells,
but. I’ll say to each and every single young person
out There you are.
You are capable of being anything you want to be.
So whatever it is you want to be,
you are very capable and you can do it.
The question then becomes.
What? What the action plan to ensure that you’re successful?
Like how you can become successful.
This is being absolutely amazing.
Thank you very much. I think if I go back
and when I’m learning from you and is and I’m
hearing from you over and over again,
it’s believe in yourself and be ready to commit to
what it takes to be at that level to release
your genius and an it does take something.
And that’s OK that it takes a lot of effort.
Yeah, and that’s part of the fun.
As Nathan was sort of saying before is you enjoy
Yeah, if you enjoy it it’s not work.
Yeah, don’t look at it that effort as a bad
thing is a great thing.
Yeah, awesome thank you. So thanks to van.
Thank you so much guys.
Thank you for having me appreciate this.
This has been great. Thank you.
So thank you everybody. All aren’t listeners,
and again you can find out how to reach Divonne
and just amazing stories and once again releasing the genius
in our world and allowing other people to release,
the geniuses will put the links for jase everywhere so
you can connect with him.
I know that there is other people reaching out to
us after episode with fibi from Uganda saying how can
we duplicate something?
How can we support over there?
I think that we’re starting to make some matches so.
Awesome, thanks. OK. Take care of buddy.